Ben Lee on Legacy, Nostalgia And Looking Forwards

Ben Lee is celebrating the twentieth anniversary of seminal album Awake Is The New Sleep playing the whole album in full, with a great band behind with all the stories about how these tunes came to be. Doing it 2005 style, no backing tracks, no click tracks, no video screens singing songs about love and lust, adventure and interconnectivity. It promises to be a great evening and Ben talks to Hi Fi Way about the album and the legacy it continues to build..

Congratulations on twenty years of Awake Is the New Sleep. How does that milestone sit with you right now?
Yeah, it’s amazing. I’ve always been such a forward-facing artist, constantly going, experimenting, creating, so time just kind of passes without realising it. That record is about being young, dealing with heartbreak, opening up, and wanting to be in the world. It’s wild how those themes just keep resurfacing and staying relevant.

You’ve said you’re not naturally drawn to nostalgia. Is it hard not to get swept up in it with such a big anniversary?
Totally, it’s something I’ve had to consciously allow. My instinct is always “no.” I’ve believed in the Douglas Coupland quote, “Nostalgia is a weapon. It deadens you, it’s dangerous.” I’ve never done an anniversary-type thing before for that reason. But I figured I could only do this if I was fully present in it, and honest about the paradox of celebrating the past while moving forward.

Did that take some convincing, especially when other anniversaries have passed quietly?
It’s weird. You start to realise this is how pop culture continues its dialogue. Like when Throwback Thursdays took off on Instagram, I never used to look at old photos, but people wanted it. I started sharing, and developed an appreciation for those memories. This felt similar, even if it’s not natural for me, this album and this anniversary felt like the right moment to engage in that conversation.

Songs like Catch My Disease and We’re All In This Together became anthems in their own right. Are you surprised by their how impactful they continue to be?
When you’re making a record, you’re just trying to make a good album. Maybe a few more people come to your gigs or you get some good reviews. You’re never thinking two decades ahead. These songs have resurfaced in ways I never expected, like The Terrys covering Catch My Disease or it popping up again during COVID. You can’t predict that kind of legacy. Songs run their own course.

Does seeing your music pop up in ads and TV shows reinforce that feeling?
Yeah, I’ve always liked that idea, songs having a life beyond what I intended. That’s part of the fun. I was on a call this morning about doing music for a film, and I love that songwriters are being part of culture. It’s not just about attention on your work, it’s about contributing to the fabric of culture. That’s satisfying.

On the flip side, do you feel any frustration from people expecting more of the same with each release?
Interesting question, I don’t know. I’m not a people pleaser, I’ve felt that pressure, but I’ve never really responded to it. Honestly, I’ve never been able to do the same thing twice. Some artists build reliable, consistent brands, you know what you’re going to get, and I admire that. I’m kind of jealous. It’s great business acumen. But I just can’t do it.

Looking back, any advice you’d give your early twenties self?
Probably wouldn’t have listened! After Awake Is the New Sleep, I had a weird side project idea, and the label said, “Just do one more proper album first, there’s so much demand.” So I rushed into Ripe, when I really wanted to go off on a tangent. I trusted others to know better, but in creativity, delays kill ideas. I’d tell my younger self to move forward confidently and never slow down for anyone.

Was it difficult to navigate the public interest in your personal life, especially back then?
I don’t know, it never really felt like a problem. The whole celebrity side of things, the interest in personalities and dating, that machine really just helps people discover your music. It’s kind of the sad truth, more so now than ever. Some people build entire careers on cultural presence without any actual songs. I always liked rock stars, and I knew I wanted to be famous, so it didn’t feel like something to resist.

Seeing Awake Is the New Sleep repressed on vinyl, is that a bit of a buzz?
It’s funny how some people are super attached to vinyl. My friend Andy, who did the layout for This One’s for the Old Headz, was adamant we had to press it. I wasn’t as enthused, dragging vinyl around to shows just felt like a pain. I’m not a big vinyl guy. I get it for artists I really love, but it’s becoming more of a prestige object now. It’s never been my personal fetish, though I do appreciate it when I hear it on a great system.

Would you change anything about Awake Is the New Sleep now, or did it nail the moment?
There’s one thing I might’ve tweaked. The first song we recorded was Whatever It Is, and we thought it was just a demo, so we didn’t put much time into mic placement or mixing. That’s why the vocals sound a bit muted. I wish I’d said, “no demos, this is going to be the real thing.”

Any plans to revisit some B-sides on tour? The Modest Mouse cover of Float On would be an awesome inclusion.
That’s a good idea, I hadn’t thought of that. I was writing a lot at the time, so there were heaps of extras from that EP era. I’m still figuring out the other tour elements, but revisiting those tracks could be really fun.

Will you perform the album start to finish, or shake up the order?
Right now, I’m excited to play it in sequence, I’ve never done that before. Of course, knowing me, I’ll probably mix it up after a couple shows. But there’s something satisfying about the way songs flowed back then, how one track led into the next, how you’d recognise what was coming from the sound of the outro. I felt that watching The Lemonheads do It’s a Shame About Ray. I want to recreate that.

Maybe flip the order or do like They Might Be Giants did picking a song to play backward, film it and play it on screen later going forwards?
That’s a cool idea! I think I’ll need to get bored first, then start experimenting with some of those wild formats.

Beyond this celebration, what’s next? Another album? Something unexplored?
I’ve got a kids’ animated TV show in development that blends music and sound, really exciting stuff. My wife and I have also been growing our podcast, and it’s starting to gain momentum. As for a new solo album, I’m flirting with the idea. I really believe what Neil Young said, “don’t write the song until you’ve got something to say.” I can feel the inspiration bubbling, but I’m not sure where it’s heading yet. I want to be there when it lands.

I really enjoy your podcast, especially your views on the Australian music scene. Why do you think people haven’t been paying more attention particularly with the Triple J Hottest 100 conversation?
Thanks! I feel like people are paying attention now, but it’s tricky. Our industry’s so small that folks, especially young artists are nervous to rock the boat. Triple J politics are constantly on their minds, because airplay can be a game-changer. But they haven’t played me in years, I’ve got nothing to lose. I see this time as my moment to speak up. I’ve always wanted a platform where people take my ideas seriously, and I feel like I finally have it. So I’m learning how to use it properly, rock the boat, but with purpose.

Are you concerned about AI in music, like Spotify’s AI-generated bands that some people don’t realise aren’t even real?
I don’t have a definitive answer, but I do think humans, especially those playing live, still have a competitive edge. There’s something raw and unpredictable in live music, something anarchic that algorithms can’t replicate. I want to lean into that space where we offer experiences AI can’t match. That’s where our real value still lives.

Any recent albums that have blown you away?
Always! I’ve been digging through older stuff too, just discovered a Frank Black album I hadn’t heard with this track All My Ghosts. Been playing Yung Lean, and there’s an artist up north called Rainbow Sally I really like. Shamir’s last album, which I co-wrote a track on,is great. Loved the latest Bon Iver, Jeffrey Lewis, and Lonnie Holley records too. There’s always something fresh out there.

Interview By Rob Lyon

Catch Ben Lee on the following dates, tickets from Frontier Touring…